Tolkiens complex writings and retcons dont reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. After his friendship with Nori, that would hurt. The villain created The One Ring, where he put most of his power. He will likely go through some things, but that would mean the Gandalf we meet in the Second Age is largely the same as the Gandalf in the Third Age. Would he have given the Ring back to Sauron or would he have kept the ring and contested Sauron for power over Middle-earth? Opens in new tab Opens in new tab Opens in new tab. In conclusion, if a Maia (Gandalf or Saruman) would get and use the ring, a bitter fight to the end would ensue between the keeper of the ring and Sauron, a fight even more bitter than the one between elves and orcs, Gondor and Mordor, much like an evil kinstrife to the death. Was the "Eye of Sauron" Sauron's actual physical form? Hidden realms of elves in the past had undone the plans of Morgoth himself, and Sauron was not likely to let such a thing go unchallenged. It's possible Saruman would have been able to defeat Sauron. (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, The Silmarillion as far as the quoted material here goes). But why do I think the Stranger is Saruman? If Saruman had not been corrupted in the first place, the war might have gone much easier for the Free Peoples. Five wizards came to Middle-earth, so the Stranger could be any of them. Saruman in the Shire: how long had he been planning it? The stone had a green/purple coloring. A place where magic is studied and practiced? He disobeyed his king but he held his loyalty to his people and by doing so he inadvertently saved Middle-Earth. On the other hand, Sauron was not invincible either. What did Tolkien originally write? Probably, upon creation, Saruman was weaker than Gandalf and Sauron, and he spent his entire existence trying to increase his power, leading to his jealousy of Gandalf and eventual betrayal. What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? If he didn't get the Truth from Saruman, he could get it from the halflings and if they were dead due to Saruman, capture and question any of Saruman's orcs or men roaming between Isengard and the Black Gate. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Saruman was a wizard and warlord, in a fortress controlled by himself, garrisoned by orcs and men, and separated from Mordor by regions which were not Sauron-friendly. Still, this is a point to consider. Tolkiens trilogy its even plastered on the cover of several editions of the books. This one, too, was controlled by Sauron. How long before Sauron wrung out the truth from Saruman? If he followed the strategy I've mentioned, his fighters would have to deal with the feisty Rohirrim, and would also run the risk of a flank attack from Gondor, before they could even get near Isengard. I don't think we have enough information to answer this with certainty. Exactly. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Sauron's power (and Gandalf's too). In The Lord of the Rings, the palantri corrupt nearly all who use them. One can imagine Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? One other Seeing Stone has been accounted for: the Stone of Minas Anor. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Tolkien says in Letter 246 that the Ring is not only comparable to "a devastating weapon" (which Frodo doesn't know how to use) but also to "an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility". What percentage of recruits fail boot camp? Even though Frodo had a 4-5 day head-start further east and would be entering the Dead Marshes on March 1st, Saruman would also have had a head-start on everyone else in terms of knowledge and certainty. He says: "Even reckoned as a lord and captain Saruman has grown very strong Saruman also had a mind to capture the Ring for himself [Sauron] now has Isengard to fear as well as Minas Tirith" The word "fear" seems important here. However, Gandalf knew that if he being an extremely powerful Maiar just like Sauron had taken the One Ring, he would become no different than the Dark Lord. https://www.patreon.com/thebrokensword-----Also if you want to support in a different way then check out our Teespring page where we upload original designs for our merch! The Ring still wants to be with its true master. And they are similar to, if slightly less powerful than, the Maiar? The Lord of the Rings is one of the best series of three fantasy adventure films, The Fellowship of the Ring (2001), The Two Towers (2002), and The Return of the King (2003), directed by Peter Jackson, based on the novel which was written by J. R. R. Tolkien.The series is widely regarded as the greatest and the most influential, it was also a huge success financially and is among the highest . Because the One Ring was the master to all . He starts on a similar path as Gandalf, but his choices and hunger for power lead him to evil. How to show that an expression of a finite type must be one of the finitely many possible values? Saruman knew good and well what would happen when he tried holding Gandalf. Rather, Saruman would have had to dominate Sauron's will and essentially kick him out of the Ring. 1. This is the real reason the eagles question will never die: Its too appetizing for The Lord of the Rings fans. Forces from Mordor and Rhun would have been sent to fight their way through Rohan, leaving Minas Tirith undefeated to the south. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? its forging) to end (the . Saruman probably would have become the dominant power in Middle Earth and turned it into a pretty crappy place to live. Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. Saruman tries to master the ring, but he doesn't completely achieve such mastery. If Saruman's Uruks had been successful and he had taken possession of the One Ring, how would have things turned out differently in Middle-earth? As Istari, they were to exhort the free peoples of the world in preparation for a possible future conflict with Sauron. rev2023.3.3.43278. What are the benefits of digital signatures? "Greetings, Naruto Wraithslayer, wielder of the Faerdagnir. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? That's information that either could potentially use to tip the balance, but perhaps Saruman would also have had awareness that a contest with Sauron was one that he couldn't possibly win? Mostly, though, he most enjoys writing about Star Wars. He also had control of the nine kings and such or was supposed to, although didn't Elrond get a ring yet was present at the battle? Fury of the Gods Special: Shazamily Matters, A Lord of the Rings Theory Hints Tom Bombadil Was in the Movies All Along, 10 Sci-Fi Films That Bombed At The Box Office But Became Cult Classics. In the chaos Eomer created, two hobbits managed to escape with the help of a greedy orc and met with an ancient being which in turn led to the ruin of Saruman. His Spirit would continue in some astral realm, and would use His real weapon: TIME. They are not beasts. He still had the nine, and perhaps some of the seven. The Ring merely corrupted you, it did not control you. Saruman is my favorite figure of all time . 5 Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? Here's a new theory concerning Saruman and Grima. mostly minifigs and decorated bricks. Galadriel and Gandalf each made a conscious decision not to embark on such a course; but Saruman would not have hesitated. In the Silmarillion we have Iluvatar's strongest creation falling from grace.In many ways Saruman's fall is the 3rd Age equivalent. Since Sauruman was once justly revered as among the great, by such as Elrond, and even Gandalf, it seems that he might well have been able to use the ring against Sauron successfully. We know of his ultimate betrayal against Middle-earth, maybe especially against his fellow Wizards and the Valar. Saruman is ruined when the Riders of Rohan defeat his army and Merry and Pippin prompt the Ents to destroy Isengard. When Sauron was in Dol Guldur, he lay dormant most of the time. I think Saruman would have kept the Ring and used its real and symbolic powers to contest with Sauron for control over Middle-earth by building up his own empire. What would have happened if the Balrog of Moria had taken possession of The One Ring? You have different tier options between $2 - $250, which can get you everything from exclusive access to upcoming videos, shoutouts, discounts, access to original artwork, producer credits on productions etc. The One Ring has a number of powers and depending on what information (particularly regarding the Middle Earth RPG) you will get very vague to very specific capabilties for the One Ring. That was a major concern for Sauron, and one of the reasons he felt constrained to hurry his stroke to gain mastery of the world without the ring. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Answer (1 of 12): I agree with what has been said. Either way Sauron would've just destroyed him at some point if he got the ring back; Saruman getting the Ring is another . Tolkien said of Saruman, also known as Curumo: The first to come was one of noble mien and bearing, with raven hair, and a fair voice, and he was clad in white; great skill he had in works of hand, and he was regarded by well-nigh all, even by the Eldar, as the head of the Order. Does this sword yield more power than the ring? The Vanyar were one of the tribes/families of the elves. Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. )https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpgaqH-cKuqvfKr1NL-yudg-----Don't forget to check out our Official website!www.thebrokensword.co.ukIf you want to support the channel, you can help us on our Patreon page. Did Aragorn ever offer the ring to Frodo? That he will never do now." Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: Just like when Sauron, arguably the most powerful 'mage' of that time, did during the last alliance the one where he lost due to a mere human? Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. RELATED: The Lord of the Rings: 10 Details About Sauron's Costume You Never Noticed This incident, one of those that was invented for the film to increase tension, is an incredible missed opportunity for the minions of the Dark . I also assume that Sauron would have eventually won the war. You are using an out of date browser. House of Dragons vs. Their power was in preserving and healing the hurts done to the earth, and to those who were harmed by evil. He had already copied Sauron in every other aspect. Tolkein himself said that it would have been a difficult battle, and might have gone either way, but that One of the true great powers could have dedfeated Sauron by using the Ring. With possession of the one ring he would have replaced Sauron (would have wiped him out entirely). Like the Valar He was created in the Beginning. See Palantr Wikipedia . The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". What would have happened if Saruman got the ring? Covering the hottest movie and TV topics that fans want. *Originally posted by Triskadecamus * ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? Do you want to be the first who gets the news directly to your mailbox? In Tolkiens writings, they came across the sea. We know that one of the elven rings was gifted to Gandalf. The Lord of the Rings doesnt have plot holes. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. All betting content is intended for an . In Unfinished Tales, J.R.R. Come join us to discuss the works of Tolkien. But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. Two Maiar duking it out at their full strength would have brought ruin to much of Middle-earth, and that was exactly what the Valar had hoped to avoid in the first place. Gandalf had the last one, though Im not sure anyone but Cirdan, Himself, and Elrond and Galadriel knew it. When Gandalf meets Saruman in Orthanc, he notices that Saruman is wearing a ring. I think the real point has been missed. https://www.teespring.com/stores/historyoftheagesAlso here are our other social media links too! Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. But there are important differences between Saruman's position, if he had taken the Ring in Isengard, and Frodo's position when he claimed the Ring in Mordor. When given the opportunity It would betray Its wearer, and find Its way back to Its Master. Please don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date with all future content! And hes got a considerable stronghold and force of arms with which to hold off Saurons forces until he can learn to use it. At the beginning of the story, Saruman is more powerful than Gandalf. Of course, Saruman was shocked to hear about the One Ring but wasn't going to help Gandalf conceal it because he had already chosen a new course of action. Obviously, the Uruk-hai didn't make it back to Isengard, and they didn't have the Ring anyway. Will to conquer all life in Middle-earth was the last bit I believe. . The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. Saruman Secretly Forged His Own Ring of Power in The Lord of the Rings. Narsil was made by the dwarves not elves. Keep in mind the Ring doesn't only have Sauron's power in it. You would have a situation where Saruman knows exactly where the Ringbearer is headed and Sauron knowing Saruman is suspiciously concentrated on the area from Parth Galen to the Black Gate. *shrugs*. Is Taco Bell healthier than other fast food? He wanted the One Ring. In fact, he had started searching for the . Knowing where he ends up would make the Strangers current journey all the more fascinating. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. Sarumaon told Gandalf that a new power was rising and noone could srand and therefore they should join that power. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Other powerul magic users such as Galadriel, Gandalf & Saruman can use the Ring to increase their power as that is what it was forged by Sauron to do, but it will never truly be completely under their will because Sauron's evil will already exists in the Ring. Sorry, memory fails me ATM. The Great Eye also features heavily in Peter Jacksons blockbuster big-screen adaptations, an ever-watchful flaming orb atop a massive stone obelisk. We'll probably never know. For more information, please see our In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. We see this happening when Frodo claims the Ring at the Crack of Doom, and there's no reason to think it would be different for Saruman. He only knew an orc band was loose and could cause problems and he feared an alliance between Saruman and Sauron which would be bad for Rohan so off he went. What is the significance of Saruman's Ring? But what was the purpose of the three? It basically lets them look unique according to their enchantment. The images have been re-edited so I hope you enjoy! Did she think she could have avoided being drawn to Sauron if she did seize the Ring? **Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. Director Peter Jackson adapted the books into six films divided into two trilogies The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.More popularly referred to as The Lord of the Rings movies, watching them in chronological order helps viewers place certain disparate events . Ultimately, we dont know who the Stranger is, aside from being an Istar, or a wizard. He regained his identity and seemingly his memories, but the Stranger did not say, Hi, Nori, I have a name and its Gandalf. His friendship with the adventurous Harfoot, his mannerisms, and some of his lines ring true for Gandalf the Grey. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Without Gandalf, King Theoden would likely remain under the control of Saruman. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. Even if Saruman won this hypothetical battle, it would be ultimately irrelevant. By the time that happened, little would be left but the ruins of the world in the aftermath of Saurons great war to regain the ring. Does he use his great voice, enhanced by the One to subjugate the free peoples. Gandalf - open displays of power versus his restrictions as an Istar. He writes about everything from NCIS to Stranger Things to The Walking Dead and everything in between. This mod, although it doesn't add a new staff to the game, creates a unique design for all of the Skyrim staves. The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, A THE LORD OF THE RINGS Musical Heads to the UK Stage, LOTR: RETURN OF THE KING Returning to Theaters for 20th Anniversary, 5 Middle-earth Stories the New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies Should Tell, Go On a Journey with THE LORD OF THE RINGS ADVENTURE BOOK GAME, New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies in the Works (Yes, Really), MAGIC: THE GATHERING Headsto Middle-earth with LORD OF THE RINGS Set, Send Sauron a Letter with LOTR Black Speech Keyboard. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. He sees the Dark Lord as a rival and also an aspiration. Sauron may not learn the true goal of the Ringbearer but he would know that the ringbearer was most likely near or nearing his borders. However, Saruman had planned his rise to power much earlier than that. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. The Palantri. He sees the Dark Lord as a rival and also an aspiration. Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/TheBrokenSwordYouTube/Twitter https://twitter.com/TheBroken_SwordInstagram https://www.instagram.com/thebroken_sword/----------Please consider subscribing to the channel for all future updates based on the Lord of the Rings!Any future news and updates regarding the show or anything else, we will be sure to let you guys know ASAP!Also, if you have any suggestions for future videos too, then please leave a comment below!----------We do not claim to own the rights to any of the art work used throughout this video. But if they did, Saruman would have had the One Ring in his possession. He and Nori leave for the land in the east at the end of The Rings of Power season one finale. We'll pick u. Well what DID the Ring do for Sauron? Soon (convenient term, soon) I will begin on the second volume of The Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.It consists of two 'books', The Treason of Isengard and The Ring Goes East.The first 'book' of the volume deals with the adventures of Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas as they go in search of Merry and Pippin; this puts them all in conflict with the traitorous wizard Saruman's machinations. JavaScript is disabled. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". What would have happened if Saruman had gotten his hands on the One Ring? It was his own and under his will. I know Letter 246 says Sauron himself did not fear the Ring, would not have hesitated to confront a Ring-wielding Frodo, and could easily have forced Frodo to hand the Ring over. It would have been the master in the end. This increased his corruption, though he never lost the possibility of becoming independent with the One Ring. In what way? My own feeling is that since it takes time to learn to master the Ring (also Letter 246), Sauron would have had to pay a visit immediately and before Saruman had the time to achieve this mastery. He's the anti-hero in his own story who spends time with the Blue Wizards in the East, heads up the White Council, and eventually . The Rise Of LOTR's Witch-king Of Angmar. By this Tolkien shows that disobedience for good reasons has merit. 4 What if Saruman had never been corrupted? I'm no Tolkien expert but I assume there would have been a great war between Isengard and Mordor, which would have affected all parts of Middle Earth. I dont find it terribly exciting that Gandalf arrived in Middle-earth and was good from the beginning (with Noris help). After all, he was extremely powerful in his own right. In any event, a confrontation between Saruman and Sauron seems as though it would not be a closely fought as the one between Gandalf and Sauron described above; Gandalf was able to cast-out Saruman, so it seems as though Sauron would have more easily had the upper-hand in such a contest. Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. Unfortunately, Sauron had got on the wrong side of a particularly powerful race: the Nmenreans.The isle of Nmenr was a realm of men that sat apart from Middle-earth and those who lived there were more powerful than the men seen elsewhere in The Lord of . These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. The White Wizard truly believed that he could resist both the dark lord's power and then, when in possession of it, the lure of the Ring of Power. This is what Sauron feared that his enemies would do, if they got the Ring; and that's the only reason he feared them. Nori even said in the finale that the Stranger was there to help. So He would do what He did after His defeat by Isildur. She seems to have seriously pondered what she might do if she got hold of the Ring, and she was only an Elf, not a Maiar like Saruman. Thank you! He did not fear Sauron, but rather was forbidden to contest with him directly.
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